MyDD :: Dean: Drag on Dems???

Dean: Drag on Dems???

by DemDog, Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 02:06:39 PM EST

Someone sent me some data today suggesting Howard Dean is a drag on Democratic candidates. I am not sure if that can be proven from the data, but it does surprise me that in his home state of Vermont he had a history of running behind other Democrats.

Regardless, does this suggest Dean as the party leader will be a good thing for Democrats running in Vermont or New York? Or how about Texas and Florida? Just something to think about.

Numbers:

1998 Leahy---72%
Dean---55%

2000 Gore-------51%
Dean------50%

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my thoughts (none / 0)

Was Leahy strongly challenged? Where there more people in the Dean race? Also, a one percent difference between him and Gore does not mean anything at all. Statistically, it's basically the same number.

I would have to see more data points, but I don't see anything here that proves your point at all.

by charlesdog12 on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 02:23:59 PM EST

Nope. (none / 0)

Dean did some pretty unpopular and controversial things as gov. He also had some opponenets that were determined to bring him down, and ran really nasty races against him.

Bottom line is, if he was such a drain on Dems in his state, why was he elected, what was it, five times or so? The guy never lost until he ran for president.

He's hardly a drain. Do you due dilligence next time.

Witty comment goes here...

by michael in chicago on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 02:28:01 PM EST

Anti-Dean contingent, eh? (3.00 / 2)

What a load of hooey. The man was elected and re-elected and re-elected and re-elected and re-elected and re-elected and re-elected and so on and so on and so forth.

Dean Dozen candidates were elected all across the country. Most of them first time candidates against entrenched incumbents.

Dean Dozen candidates won in Utah and Georgia and Alabama amongst other places.

Gimme a break.

Selective fact presentation is b.s. If you don't support the guy for DNC Chair that is fine. There are several quality candidates and there is nothing wrong in supporting one of them but don't add to the Regressive Republican Party Noise Machine by spewing up selective and purposefully misleading crap.

Oh... and by the way... Howard apparently plays fine in Florida too. Their entire DNC contingent endorsed him. They don't appear to have any fear of him being any sort of drag whatsoever.

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 02:33:54 PM EST

NO (none / 0)

Dean energized the base and made 2004 a close campaign. http://www.democracyforamerica.com/dean_dnc_page.gif

Max Friedman

by Max Friedman on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 03:18:10 PM EST

What about his other gov. elections? (3.00 / 2)

(A repost from the same Diary you posted on dKos)

1992:
Dean - 74.7%
McClaughry - 23%

Clinton - 46.1%
Bush - 30.4%

1994:
Dean - 68.6%
Kelly - 19%

Backus - 41%
Jeffords - 50%

1996
Dean - 70.5%
Kelly - 19%

Clinton - 53%
Dole - 31%

Not too shabby, eh?

I'd note that in 2000, a leftwing third party candidate siphoned 9.5% off of Dean, and he still won by 12.5% (whereas Gore only won by 10%, with Nader taking in 7%).

Also in Dean's 2000 election was right after he sign the Civil Unions bill

Besides telling us how to live, think, marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children and, die, the GOP has done a fine job of getting gov't out of our lives.

by Parker on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 03:22:54 PM EST

Dude, he isn't running for office (3.00 / 1)

He's running for some control over our strategy.

Try this exercise:

Imagine Dean didn't run for President last year.
Imagine he didn't even exist.

Now imagine Kerry, Gephardt, and Edwards as candidates without Dean.

Now, imagine a statistic of 51-49 being really more like 61-29.

by Sam Loomis on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 04:07:04 PM EST

because (none / 0)

Dean slapped them in the face with the hands of millions of frustrated liberals and democrats sick and tired of their representatives having no balls to stand up for something, ANYthing.

He made Kerry a better candidate.

by Sam Loomis on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 04:10:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Saw Howard Dean in L.A. last night (none / 0)

I want a fighter next time! His ideas for bringing every group further into the party hierarchy and to avoid top-down management of message...these are things we wanted to hear. We clapped until our hands hurt. Can anybody else bring that kind of energy to the post? If so, show me, until then, Howard's my man!

by bigdogjunior1963 on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 04:39:00 PM EST

We get it (none / 0)

You love Frost. Wonderful. Unfortunately, putting up bogus and easily debunked stats won't help your agenda.

Try harder.

by ElitistJohn on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 06:06:41 PM EST

Headline should read more like... (none / 0)

"Dean: Dragging Dems out of lethargy"

The 10,000 Things

by Andrew C White on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 06:25:16 PM EST

party head...... (none / 0)

I'd rather see him run for president, but the iowa scream and punidtry ridiculousness would likely preclude him in '08 anyway. His strength as party head would be formidable. I agree with the prior posts about his effect in '04-- he made Kerry and Edwards much better candidates and he galvanized the party in ways not seen in 50 years.

As party chief, he'll be great. He's the only one who can take the energy of the grassroots and transform it into a national, 50 state organization and strategy.

One thing '04 proved is voters value consistency and authenticity. Dean is the right messenger for a new, reform based democratic party.

Gore-Obama '08

by anoodle on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 06:47:18 PM EST

Re: party head...... (none / 0)

The scream is not a liability. It is not why he lost Iowa (as it was after Iowa) and it is not why he lost after that. If Bush's DWI wasn't a liability, the scream isn't either. It will be so far forgotten by 2008 it is not even an issue. All it means is that if he wants to run for pres, he has to have a 15 second statement that shuts down scream talk forever, which seems easy enough to do.

I really think that focus on little things like this is paranoid and giving in to RWNM tactics. Their pettiness should not scare us out of candidates. If you don't dig a candidate (not you, just in general) then just have that be your reason. There is no reason to come up with some bogus reason why he or she is not "electible." It is part of this consultocracy thing that we, as citizens of a democracy, need to shake...

by Garemko on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 10:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reform (none / 0)

I asked over in another diary for folks like you to explain how Frost would implement reform? Where is your diary on this subject?

by bruh21 on Sat Jan 22, 2005 at 08:48:29 PM EST

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